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posted:
12/10/2009 7:39:44 PM
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Ah-MAY-Zing
rank: 2061
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@GhostChild, Um, no, we do not just bomb the Middle East. Imagine if everyone bombed their problems away. Most of the Northern Hemisphere would have been obliterated. And besides, international laws would not let that happen. Bombing the Middle East would kill a lot of innocent citizens. Do you think they want the war there? Why do you think they hate places like America? They just waltz on in there looking for weapons of mass destruction, report finding none, and then stay there.
Also, saying that 9/11 was a tragedy followed by saying that it would be a good idea to bomb the Middle East is a total hypocritical statement.
The Middle East is being ravaged, they're economy is kept alive only by oil, which they have limited access to now, their governments are (for the most part) co-operating to a point where it would be absurd because they're hemorrhaging money. A lot of people look at them like they're all criminals, all terrorists, most of them are victims. :|
But there's really no absolute alternative that would benefit everyone, let's just hope it's not dubbed "Vietnam V2"
-Boxix
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@GhostChild, Um, no, we do not just bomb the Middle East. Imagine if everyone bombed their problems away. Most of the Northern Hemisphere would have been obliterated. And besides, international laws would not let that happen. Bombing the Middle East would kill a lot of innocent citizens. Do you think they want the war there? Why do you think they hate places like America? They just waltz on in there looking for weapons of mass destruction, report finding none, and then stay there.
Also, saying that 9/11 was a tragedy followed by saying that it would be a good idea to bomb the Middle East is a total hypocritical statement.
The Middle East is being ravaged, they're economy is kept alive only by oil, which they have limited access to now, their governments are (for the most part) co-operating to a point where it would be absurd because they're hemorrhaging money. A lot of people look at them like they're all criminals, all terrorists, most of them are victims. :|
But there's really no absolute alternative that would benefit everyone, let's just hope it's not dubbed "Vietnam V2"
-Boxix
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posted:
12/10/2009 7:42:15 PM
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Ah-MAY-Zing
rank: 8282
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ghostchild: So if terrorists take refuge in a town, the US is supposed to bomb all of the civilians along with the terrorists? Or are you suggesting that the US randomly bomb the desert? <_< Sorry but your plan is really nuts.
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ghostchild: So if terrorists take refuge in a town, the US is supposed to bomb all of the civilians along with the terrorists? Or are you suggesting that the US randomly bomb the desert? <_< Sorry but your plan is really nuts.
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posted:
12/10/2009 8:44:39 PM
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Ah-MAY-Zing
rank: 4597
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Ghostchildglen beck: no, no, No. We can not just get everybody involved within our problem. We cannot just go in bomb the hell out of a country. Do you honestly think its as easy as that? Do you think terrorists are as easy to find as you average Joe walking down the street? If we bomb places where the terrorists are hiding we could kill thousands maybe even millions of inocent people. You hate 911 and incourage to do the same basic thing to the country? How contemptable. Mods please post
ȣ-ƓØƉ-ɃⱠɆ$$-ȺTĦɆÏ$М-ȣ
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Ghostchildglen beck: no, no, No. We can not just get everybody involved within our problem. We cannot just go in bomb the hell out of a country. Do you honestly think its as easy as that? Do you think terrorists are as easy to find as you average Joe walking down the street? If we bomb places where the terrorists are hiding we could kill thousands maybe even millions of inocent people. You hate 911 and incourage to do the same basic thing to the country? How contemptable. Mods please post
ȣ-ƓØƉ-ɃⱠɆ$$-ȺTĦɆÏ$М-ȣ
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posted:
12/10/2009 9:44:07 PM
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My point> what makes them the terrorists and us the freedom fighters?
Roborat
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My point> what makes them the terrorists and us the freedom fighters?
Roborat
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posted:
12/11/2009 5:45:34 PM
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Mayhem
rank: 1543
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This is absurd, where are you guys getting the information thatr I said to bomb ALL of Afghanistan? I only mean the areas that are INFESTED with terrorists. And if they are being harboured in a civilian populated area, go after them by different means. Grenades, guns, close quarters weapons. But make sure civilians aren't in the way.
Mushroomsamba: (Read above)
Boxix: (Read above) Ugh, we DO NOT let guilty persons walk off scott-free from what they've done. That applies to al-Qaeda. You waste them all like they did too us.
Are you seriously infering that I think all Middle Eastern pople are terrorists? How dare you!
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This is absurd, where are you guys getting the information thatr I said to bomb ALL of Afghanistan? I only mean the areas that are INFESTED with terrorists. And if they are being harboured in a civilian populated area, go after them by different means. Grenades, guns, close quarters weapons. But make sure civilians aren't in the way.
Mushroomsamba: (Read above)
Boxix: (Read above) Ugh, we DO NOT let guilty persons walk off scott-free from what they've done. That applies to al-Qaeda. You waste them all like they did too us.
Are you seriously infering that I think all Middle Eastern pople are terrorists? How dare you!
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posted:
12/11/2009 7:41:03 PM
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Ghostchild:............Yes, bomb our problems away, that is exactly what we need.
Killing all terrorists? That is pretty much impossible....wait, scratch that, that IS impossible. As we see, the closest thing we can compare terrorists to are cockroaches, You kill one, 2 appear and they never die easily. What we need is to make them question their own beliefs, make them understand what they are doing is wrong. However, with all the brutes in the army running around killing everything that moves, its impossible. A war can only end with brains, look at WW2 for example.
Clearly this is WW3, just you watch, in history books 10 years from now it'll say so.
Endlessdragon
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Ghostchild:............Yes, bomb our problems away, that is exactly what we need.
Killing all terrorists? That is pretty much impossible....wait, scratch that, that IS impossible. As we see, the closest thing we can compare terrorists to are cockroaches, You kill one, 2 appear and they never die easily. What we need is to make them question their own beliefs, make them understand what they are doing is wrong. However, with all the brutes in the army running around killing everything that moves, its impossible. A war can only end with brains, look at WW2 for example.
Clearly this is WW3, just you watch, in history books 10 years from now it'll say so.
Endlessdragon
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posted:
12/12/2009 12:56:16 AM
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Ah-MAY-Zing
rank: 8282
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Roborat: Better propaganda distribution systems.
ghostchild: Problem being that the US doesn't care whether or not Iraqi civilians are in the way, which is why so many are already dead. No one's going to increase the amount of violence and dial down the amount of killing civilians.
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Roborat: Better propaganda distribution systems.
ghostchild: Problem being that the US doesn't care whether or not Iraqi civilians are in the way, which is why so many are already dead. No one's going to increase the amount of violence and dial down the amount of killing civilians.
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posted:
12/12/2009 6:29:15 AM
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ghostchild- You do realize that the terrorists don't all like just live in the same house completely separate from everyone else right?
They blend in with the population; they don't wear big "TEAM OSAMA" shirts... So you're definitely oversimplifying it in your strategy. Think of terrorists like gang members. We can't just bomb all the gang members in our countries, because they are secretive and masquerade as civilians, same thing with terrorists.
With all due respect, jchansfan
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ghostchild- You do realize that the terrorists don't all like just live in the same house completely separate from everyone else right?
They blend in with the population; they don't wear big "TEAM OSAMA" shirts... So you're definitely oversimplifying it in your strategy. Think of terrorists like gang members. We can't just bomb all the gang members in our countries, because they are secretive and masquerade as civilians, same thing with terrorists.
With all due respect, jchansfan
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posted:
12/12/2009 3:42:33 PM
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Mayhem
rank: 1543
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So then what are we supposed to do? Just let the Middle East continue to be plagued by terrorism? If we don't do anything, NO ONE will. As long as al-Qaeda and the Taliban, and all other terrorist organizations reign, then a major terror attack, like the Mumbai terrorist attacks, and 9/11 WILL happen again. Terrorists never stop plotting to kill people in their own nation, and people of the Western world (us). They don't like us, and they never will.
Mushroomsamba: Then, won't that make nations fighting in the war hypocrites? "We're trying to save the nation from terror, yet we're killing civilians in the process?" Isn't it possible to do one without the other?
Do IED's, or bombs, or anything like that, that terrorists use to kill people, give off radiation, or some kind of waves that people could use to DETECT that they are there before someone get's blown up?
Endlessdragon: Of course there is going to be another major war. How do I say this? Humanity likes war. We like conflict. There is always some (explesive) that has to cause problems for everyone.
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So then what are we supposed to do? Just let the Middle East continue to be plagued by terrorism? If we don't do anything, NO ONE will. As long as al-Qaeda and the Taliban, and all other terrorist organizations reign, then a major terror attack, like the Mumbai terrorist attacks, and 9/11 WILL happen again. Terrorists never stop plotting to kill people in their own nation, and people of the Western world (us). They don't like us, and they never will.
Mushroomsamba: Then, won't that make nations fighting in the war hypocrites? "We're trying to save the nation from terror, yet we're killing civilians in the process?" Isn't it possible to do one without the other?
Do IED's, or bombs, or anything like that, that terrorists use to kill people, give off radiation, or some kind of waves that people could use to DETECT that they are there before someone get's blown up?
Endlessdragon: Of course there is going to be another major war. How do I say this? Humanity likes war. We like conflict. There is always some (explesive) that has to cause problems for everyone.
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posted:
12/13/2009 4:42:42 PM
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| QUOTE | | So then what are we supposed to do? Just let the Middle East continue to be plagued by terrorism? If we don't do anything, NO ONE will. As long as al-Qaeda and the Taliban, and all other terrorist organizations reign, then a major terror attack, like the Mumbai terrorist attacks, and 9/11 WILL happen again. Terrorists never stop plotting to kill people in their own nation, and people of the Western world (us). They don't like us, and they never will. |
you're missing the point. they don't like the west because we go in and stick our noses into where they don't belong.
Interesting side note, the US supplied Iraq with most of the weapons they are now using against them. Why, because they helped them with a previous conflict, ticked off groups like Al-Qaeda, and now they are fighting back.
We are not innocent. We are terrorists to them, in the same way they are terrorists to us.
thats the main thing i'm trying to say. Just because they do things differently does not make them wrong.
Roborat
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| QUOTE | | So then what are we supposed to do? Just let the Middle East continue to be plagued by terrorism? If we don't do anything, NO ONE will. As long as al-Qaeda and the Taliban, and all other terrorist organizations reign, then a major terror attack, like the Mumbai terrorist attacks, and 9/11 WILL happen again. Terrorists never stop plotting to kill people in their own nation, and people of the Western world (us). They don't like us, and they never will. |
you're missing the point. they don't like the west because we go in and stick our noses into where they don't belong.
Interesting side note, the US supplied Iraq with most of the weapons they are now using against them. Why, because they helped them with a previous conflict, ticked off groups like Al-Qaeda, and now they are fighting back.
We are not innocent. We are terrorists to them, in the same way they are terrorists to us.
thats the main thing i'm trying to say. Just because they do things differently does not make them wrong.
Roborat
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posted:
12/13/2009 5:21:47 PM
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JChansfan is right ya know....Although that "team osama" t-shirt would be a great idea for the economy..
Endlessdragon
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JChansfan is right ya know....Although that "team osama" t-shirt would be a great idea for the economy..
Endlessdragon
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posted:
12/13/2009 5:50:58 PM
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Mayhem
rank: 1543
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You know how close downtown Toronto was to becoming the next Ground Zero? The "Toronto 18" were a group of teenagers who were going to, I believe, place three 1 ton bombs in vans outside three large buildings in the "heart" of Toronto. And what were the penalites of the offenders? One conspirator got a 14 year sentence, however, he can apply for parole in 2 1/2 years. One man is free, and I believe another is close to being free. These people came who knows how close to blowing up those three buildings. OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM IS SICKENING. We need to lock these guys up FOR LIFE, or kill them, or do something before another 9/11 happens.
Only when a disaster strikes, and lives are lost, do people bother to make a change about it. Post 9/11, and people still haven't learned.
BTW, that terrorist attack was to occur on September 11th, 2006.
The former head of the RCMP was aying that Canadians are nieve in this sort of thing. He claims that we think that no one is going to hurt us Canadians. Why would anybody hurt us?
He's right. We can't be nieve into thinking that bad things don't happen here. Because they do.
Roborat: That would apply to certain people of the mainstream Middle East. The terrorists don't like us because we don't follow Islam, and they don't agree with OUR beliefs.
Yah, the U.S helped Osama and now they have gone against us.
That is absoluetly absurd. You don't see the Western world hijacking aircraft and flying into their buildings, you don't see us plotting to destroy the entire Middle East as they do with us, you don't see us killing them for no reason. I know what you are trying to say, but in the grand scheme of things, who is the enemy?
I got all the info on the "Toronto 18" from a CNN documentary called "Homegrown Terror". Watch it.
MODS, Please post.
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You know how close downtown Toronto was to becoming the next Ground Zero? The "Toronto 18" were a group of teenagers who were going to, I believe, place three 1 ton bombs in vans outside three large buildings in the "heart" of Toronto. And what were the penalites of the offenders? One conspirator got a 14 year sentence, however, he can apply for parole in 2 1/2 years. One man is free, and I believe another is close to being free. These people came who knows how close to blowing up those three buildings. OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM IS SICKENING. We need to lock these guys up FOR LIFE, or kill them, or do something before another 9/11 happens.
Only when a disaster strikes, and lives are lost, do people bother to make a change about it. Post 9/11, and people still haven't learned.
BTW, that terrorist attack was to occur on September 11th, 2006.
The former head of the RCMP was aying that Canadians are nieve in this sort of thing. He claims that we think that no one is going to hurt us Canadians. Why would anybody hurt us?
He's right. We can't be nieve into thinking that bad things don't happen here. Because they do.
Roborat: That would apply to certain people of the mainstream Middle East. The terrorists don't like us because we don't follow Islam, and they don't agree with OUR beliefs.
Yah, the U.S helped Osama and now they have gone against us.
That is absoluetly absurd. You don't see the Western world hijacking aircraft and flying into their buildings, you don't see us plotting to destroy the entire Middle East as they do with us, you don't see us killing them for no reason. I know what you are trying to say, but in the grand scheme of things, who is the enemy?
I got all the info on the "Toronto 18" from a CNN documentary called "Homegrown Terror". Watch it.
MODS, Please post.
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posted:
12/14/2009 12:43:23 AM
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Ah-MAY-Zing
rank: 8282
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Ghostchild: There's never been a war in which civilians haven't been killed. That's just not how wars are fought, and harsh as it sounds, there's no reason to change that. Look at your own words and you'll understand why. War is about politics, and as long as politicians can justify the route of least resistance while keeping people happy, they'll do so. Make people think that war is necessary and suddenly the masses only care about civilians if it's convenient. Change foreign civilians into the 'other' and people will be happy if they're dead. We're an ugly species.
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Ghostchild: There's never been a war in which civilians haven't been killed. That's just not how wars are fought, and harsh as it sounds, there's no reason to change that. Look at your own words and you'll understand why. War is about politics, and as long as politicians can justify the route of least resistance while keeping people happy, they'll do so. Make people think that war is necessary and suddenly the masses only care about civilians if it's convenient. Change foreign civilians into the 'other' and people will be happy if they're dead. We're an ugly species.
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posted:
12/14/2009 3:42:47 PM
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Mayhem
rank: 1686
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I remember the Toronto 18. Well I herd of them, either while I was still In Toronto or here. . . I don't know . . .
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I remember the Toronto 18. Well I herd of them, either while I was still In Toronto or here. . . I don't know . . .
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posted:
12/14/2009 7:51:50 PM
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| QUOTE | | That is absoluetly absurd. You don't see the Western world hijacking aircraft and flying into their buildings, you don't see us plotting to destroy the entire Middle East as they do with us, you don't see us killing them for no reason. I know what you are trying to say, but in the grand scheme of things, who is the enemy? |
and you OFFICIALLY lost all credibility you may have had. *rolleyes. Google it, 100% guaranteed that the US have helped Iraq, and supplied them with all the weapons they have. (and the knowledge to make new ones) /thread  Roborat
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| QUOTE | | That is absoluetly absurd. You don't see the Western world hijacking aircraft and flying into their buildings, you don't see us plotting to destroy the entire Middle East as they do with us, you don't see us killing them for no reason. I know what you are trying to say, but in the grand scheme of things, who is the enemy? |
and you OFFICIALLY lost all credibility you may have had. *rolleyes. Google it, 100% guaranteed that the US have helped Iraq, and supplied them with all the weapons they have. (and the knowledge to make new ones) /thread Roborat
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posted:
12/15/2009 11:28:05 PM
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Ghostchild: Enemy? You know what? I'm gonna go out of topic. This needs to be said. The US have been in the middle east since 1991...that's almost 20 years after the gulf war.... 9/11 was revenge on the US for letting Israel invade and attack Lebanon......Oh wait, it just occurred to me that you're one that justifies revenge and justice right?....Intriguing eh? You look at everything in a pro-American point of view and honestly if you stop and look at the bigger picture maybe just one, you'll see that this war was happening way before 9/11......Heck, this war began with the first crusade and has never ended.
Truth be told, I get the feeling that this "war" on terror won't end. Think about it, Osama bin Laden has been hiding since 2001, still no sight of the man....Either he's dead...Or he's a ninja...
Endlessdragon
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Ghostchild: Enemy? You know what? I'm gonna go out of topic. This needs to be said. The US have been in the middle east since 1991...that's almost 20 years after the gulf war.... 9/11 was revenge on the US for letting Israel invade and attack Lebanon......Oh wait, it just occurred to me that you're one that justifies revenge and justice right?....Intriguing eh? You look at everything in a pro-American point of view and honestly if you stop and look at the bigger picture maybe just one, you'll see that this war was happening way before 9/11......Heck, this war began with the first crusade and has never ended.
Truth be told, I get the feeling that this "war" on terror won't end. Think about it, Osama bin Laden has been hiding since 2001, still no sight of the man....Either he's dead...Or he's a ninja...
Endlessdragon
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posted:
12/16/2009 6:15:22 PM
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endlessdragon> i think he's dead, but thank you for saying that. i didn't know the particulars and didn't want to look it up :P
Good Post
Roborat
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endlessdragon> i think he's dead, but thank you for saying that. i didn't know the particulars and didn't want to look it up :P
Good Post
Roborat
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posted:
12/19/2009 7:11:55 PM
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Mayhem
rank: 1543
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And now I feel like clawing my eyes out...
Look Roborat, NATO, Canada, the U.S, whatever freakin' nation you want to talk about is not hijacking aircraft flying into Middle Eastern nations, and ploughing them into the nearest skyscraper! Canadians as a whole, the United States as a whole, other Western nations are not plotting to DESTROY the entire Middle East as a few select terrorists want to be done with us on a daily basis! There are a few whackjobs who want that done though, cough, Cheney, cough cough. NOR...do you see every person on this side of the planet purposely killing Middle Eastern civilians!
Those acts of terror are conducted by a select few people in the Western world, this does NOT apply to mainstream America or Canada. Get that through your head!
And what? You had credibility to begin with?
Endlessdragon: I know that there has always been someone invading a Middle Eastern nation for God knows what reason. But are their reasons useful? Or do they just want something? Oil, Saddam dead, etc?
I only defend prosecution/justice for people who have commited a crime. And it is not to be taken on a national level like you're implying.
Please post!
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And now I feel like clawing my eyes out...
Look Roborat, NATO, Canada, the U.S, whatever freakin' nation you want to talk about is not hijacking aircraft flying into Middle Eastern nations, and ploughing them into the nearest skyscraper! Canadians as a whole, the United States as a whole, other Western nations are not plotting to DESTROY the entire Middle East as a few select terrorists want to be done with us on a daily basis! There are a few whackjobs who want that done though, cough, Cheney, cough cough. NOR...do you see every person on this side of the planet purposely killing Middle Eastern civilians!
Those acts of terror are conducted by a select few people in the Western world, this does NOT apply to mainstream America or Canada. Get that through your head!
And what? You had credibility to begin with?
Endlessdragon: I know that there has always been someone invading a Middle Eastern nation for God knows what reason. But are their reasons useful? Or do they just want something? Oil, Saddam dead, etc?
I only defend prosecution/justice for people who have commited a crime. And it is not to be taken on a national level like you're implying.
Please post!
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posted:
12/20/2009 3:25:36 PM
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so what do YOU call the war in Iraq?
if it is not terrorism, what is it?
Roborat
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so what do YOU call the war in Iraq?
if it is not terrorism, what is it?
Roborat
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posted:
12/20/2009 7:17:21 PM
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Mayhem
rank: 1543
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Roborat: First of all, I do not condone the invasion of Iraq. And I never will. Second of all, I don't know what to called it. Unjustified murder?
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Roborat: First of all, I do not condone the invasion of Iraq. And I never will. Second of all, I don't know what to called it. Unjustified murder?
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